There are so many great lines in this film as well, like “I think that forgiveness has been highly underrated” and “a friend is just an enemy you haven’t made yet.”
John Michael McDonagh: Yeah. At the first 20 minutes and the last 20 minutes in my head before I start down to write my script, I’d have lines of dialogue that I’ve thought about beforehand and I go, I’ve got to work these in somehow. “A friend is just an enemy you haven’t made yet,” I tried to work that into previous scripts and it never worked, and I thought I’d slide it in here and it did work.
I think I have a lot of epigrammatic dialogue; would there be so many witty people in this town? Probably not, and that’s why they are such hardened characters. But I hop back, I think, to the Preston Sturges screwball comedies where there were always these really witty characters all the time with this rat-a-tat-tat dialogue. Even the gay hustler character who talks like Jimmy Cagney, and all those Jimmy Cagney movies are always rat-a-tat-tat all the time. I’m trying to get back to that kind of dialogue.
It was a kick listening to the gay hustler talk because he really has a way with words.
John Michael McDonagh: Yeah, but it’s funny, I might have gone too far with that character. He’s putting on this persona and he’s actually Irish. With a lot of people their reaction was, what is an American hustler doing in a small town on the west of Ireland? He’s meant to be Irish, he’s just playing Cagney. I’m also a big fan of Damon Runyon who you don’t hear about too much anymore apart from revivals of Guys & Dolls, but he had very rich dialogue in his short stories. A lot of what that character says is very Runyon-esque.
Another great line in Calvary is when Brendan Gleeson says, “I think there’s too much talk about sins to be honest and not enough talk about virtues.” That says a lot about society today because we are endlessly fascinated with the dark side of things to where we forget about what’s good in life.
John Michael McDonagh: Well, I think for human beings it’s a method of control. Let’s say a religious organization or a political organization; they always try to make you feel bad about the things you’ve done in your life that are bad. Most human beings are trying to do the best they can, and life has gotten quite tough especially in the last 10 to 15 years. They are trying to do the best they can. They are trying to provide for their families, they are trying to help each other out as much as they can, but this idea that you have to dwell on guilt and you have to dwell on the sins you committed in the past, most of us are just trying to be decent and I find most human beings are trying to be decent and they are not being rewarded or applauded for being decent.
The character of Father Leary is an interesting one because he hasn’t had much of a life at this point to really draw on as a priest.
John Michael McDonagh: He’s not a terrible person, it’s just that he doesn’t think anything through.
It’s like he’s saying if “I follow these roles then I’m good.”
John Michael McDonagh: Yes, exactly, and then Brendan says, “You might as well be a clerk at an insurance firm.”
One of my favorite TV shows is Homicide: Life On The Street, and there was a scene between Frank Pembleton and Tim Bayliss were Frank tells him, “I’m saying you got a darkness in you, Tim Bayliss. You gotta know the darker, uglier sides of yourself. You gotta recognize them so that they’re not constantly sneaking up on you. You gotta LOVE ‘EM, ’cause they’re part of you, because along with your virtues, they make you who you are. Virtue isn’t virtue unless it slams up against vice. So consequently, your virtue’s not real virtue until it’s been tested . . . tempted.” I was thinking about that while I was watching the naïve priest in Calvary.
John Michael McDonagh: Yeah, exactly. And Tim Bayliss is the character who fails to solve the Adena Watson murder. I went back and I read David Simon’s book (Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets) and it’s a really intense book. It’s no surprise that he went on to create The Wire. That’s a terrific quote. If the whole world is good, it means nothing. It’s how you interact with the evilness in the world that defines you as a person.
Absolutely, and that’s what’s interesting about seeing Brendan’s character interacting with people throughout this movie who struggle with their faith. Or in the case with Domhnall Gleeson’s character, Brendan is just dealing with somebody who is deeply, deeply evil.
John Michael McDonagh: Yeah, but even then there’s a strange ending to that scene because we start to realize maybe he is remorseful, but were not sure if he’s playing us at the same time. That’s what the priest’s response is: “I’m not quite sure about you.” And we don’t know. I guess that ambiguity makes audiences possibly feel uncomfortable that they are not given a resolution. But then that’s what I’m trying to do in the movie, is create a kind of unease.
The way the movie ends with two characters coming face-to-face with each other, and you never get to hear their conversation, is perfect. To have us listen in would’ve been a mistake because it’s up in the air for the audience.
John Michael McDonagh: Yeah, and it honestly upsets people. It’s funny that you mentioned John Carpenter because I remember reading something about the ending of The Thing where someone was complaining about it because it’s Kurt Russell and Keith David at the end, and they are not sure if either of them has been infected. A woman came up to John and said, “That ending, what’s it supposed to mean? It’s not definitive.” John told her, “It’s ambiguous.” And she said, “Oh I hate that!” (Laughs) I guess ambiguity for a lot of audiences is something they don’t like, but I like it.
I like it too because it forces you to think about what you’ve just seen.
John Michael McDonagh: Well, you’re trying to make movies that people will watch a second time. Too many movies are disposable now. You can barely believe that you got through it once, let alone watching it twice.
That concludes our interview, but I’d like to thank John very much for his time. Be sure to check out Calvary as it’s now in theatres, and for more on the film, give our video interview with the cast a watch below.