Machines are established very early on as the enemy, but throughout the game you do an incredible job of, strangely enough, humanizing them. These machines all have reasons to protect what they have, and they have this sense of family even if they don’t fully understand what it means. Our reviewer ended up feeling regret that he had destroyed hundreds of these machines. Was that one of your goals as a writer?
YT: I’m actually very happy to hear that [your reviewer] felt that type of sentiment through that experience, but I don’t necessarily require or want anyone to feel that way. With regards to robots feeling a sense of family, and then us killing those machine life forms, there’s a certain aspect of it that mirrors human nature. For example, why are we a fan of this person next door, but then we’re not saddened by the death of people in another country? It’d be great if players of Nier: Automata could kind of see themselves reflected in the game this way; those are the types of feelings that I’d be grateful for them to experience.
As is documented in the game, machines continue to repeat their behavior even if it always ends in failure. The ending of the game surmises that life is “about the struggle within this cycle.” This kind of reminded me of a cliche we have in English that warns against repetitive behavior: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Were you trying to create a sort of cautionary metaphor against this type of human behavior?
YT: I’m not sure whether that saying is meant to state that repetitive failure, without eventual success, is meaningless… But to me, even if you fail every single time but you still repeat yourself… I don’t think there needs to be a kind of “final answer” to everything we do. Just to give an example, if someone were to climb a mountain, and they were to fail — along the way, they’re still having the experience of climbing that particular mountain, and I think there is some meaning from that experience. In the end, it’s up to the individual to develop their own understanding of whether something has meaning to them or not.
Video games could be considered quite meaningless too, couldn’t they? You don’t get any money like it’s a job, or anything. And because humans die, even life itself could be considered ultimately meaningless. I believe it’s where you place your values that determines where you find meaning. For example, I’d always wanted to be very popular with the ladies, and that’s something I couldn’t build to fruition in my youth. (laughs) Since that didn’t come true, I’m now creating video games [and placing my values there] instead. So… it’s up to the individual to find meaning where others find meaninglessness, if that makes sense.
How much fun was it coming up with 26 possible endings? What made you decide to have so many ways to end the story, even if the bulk of them are jokes?
YT: While we were making the game… we came across this specific scenario within a very serious sequence of events where you were intending to help someone, but if you ran away from that battlefield, a bug would occur that allowed you to escape to a town, where you would then be laughing and having an enjoyable time. Oftentimes, when you’re creating that type of combat sequence, there’s usually an invisible wall that prevents the player from leaving. But this bug that allowed you to run away made me think, “Why couldn’t this be an actual ending as well?”
I’ve always thought about what it means to have an ending to a game. When you really think about it, it doesn’t really matter where a game ends. Ultimately, if the player is satisfied with stopping at a particular point, it doesn’t matter if it’s where the creator intended things to end or not… and so that’s where the idea of having so many endings came about. People who have played through the demo, for example, could consider that the ending to the story as well if they were satisfied. Square Enix might have a big problem with that… (laughs) … but I feel like it’s up to the player to determine where they find a satisfying end to their experience.
Nier: Automata is available now, and WGTC gave it a rare 5-star review. We’d like to thank Square Enix for setting up this interview during PAX East 2017, and of course, we’d also like to thank Yoko Taro for taking the time to sit down with us.